DNA Dethroned – Inheritance is Protein-Based.

Posted in ATS Thread, Health, Medicine, Science, Technology on October 7, 2016 by betweentwopines

A post by soficrow at ATS.
Time to re-write those biology textbooks. Inheritance is protein-based – it’s epigenetic, not genetic.

Long story short, it’s NOT our DNA and genes that determine our traits and biological destiny – it’s proteins. Specifically, prions, aka “intrinsically disordered proteins” that can “pass heritable traits from cell to cell by their structure instead of by DNA.” These prions -and the traits they confer- can be inherited;
in humans, some are conserved over hundreds of millions of years.

Revising the meaning of ‘prion’

…When the team examined the human cognates of the prion-proteins, the intrinsically disordered domains were conserved over hundreds of millions of years.

Intrinsically disordered proteins drive emergence and inheritance of biological traits

Prions (of Mad Cow disease fame) – and their role in evolution – have intrigued me for over a decade. Finally, the scientific proofs are rolling in.

Prions are all about rapid response to environmental change, and biological-evolutionary flexibility. Proteins can change their shape when they encounter new environmental conditions (external or internal) – when they do, they change their function, and can become infectious prions. Some prions cause disease; some (most?) are beneficial.

We all have inherited prion-based traits and memories of our ancestors’ responses to environmental changes – some dating back hundreds of millions of years. Our individual exposures can trigger a truly ancient memory-response – or one first developed by our great grandmother.

Cool, huh?

In summary:
* Inherited traits are passed on by prions – with some dating back hundreds of millions of years.

As well:
* Conscious memories are ‘stored’ in prions;
* Prions are airborne; and
* Transmitted human-to-human.

Does this information affect your understanding of life? Reincarnation and karma? What else?

(c) Lanie Patrick 9/6/16


2011: Mad Cow Disease Agent Can Infect Via the Air

2012: Prion Proteins Play Powerful Role in Survival, Evolution

2014: Prion-Like Protein Controls Long-term Memories

2015: Mad Cow-Like Prion Disease – Human-to-Human Transmission

And then there’s this:

2014: DARPA Funds Project to See How Meds Trigger Prion Diseases

NOTE: Big Pharma has been tinkering with proteins since 1950 when Linus Pauling identified the actin protein’s “a” and “b” shapes. But the pharmaceutical industry’s scientific results and knowledge are protected as “Intellectual Property” by “Confidentiality Agreements.” Including their ‘mistakes.’ [I wonder how many disease-causing prions they’ve ‘accidentally’ created and distributed over the past six and a half decades. (Think side-effects.)] Now though, the dam is breaking.

Now, the information is getting out into the public domain. Which is only fair considering we the public have been funding the research with our tax dollars and donations all the way along.

The Higgs Boson aka “The God Particle”, and The Problem of Unnatural Fine Tuning

Posted in ATS Thread, Computer, Conspiracy, Cosmos, Science, Technology, Warnings on September 5, 2016 by betweentwopines

A Post by AnkhMorpork at ATS.
The Higgs Boson: A Natural Disaster!


So, in a nutshell, the standard model of physics was rendered complete with the detection of the Higgs Boson particle.

However, problem. It’s mass was not what the standard model predicted, but was “fine-tuned” by trillions (quadrillions) of degrees or what I’ve seen other physicists refer to as “reductions”, the result for which appears to be entirely unnatural.


1) Supersymmetry – or anti-particles or sparticles for every particle. Problem. Not detected. Also, such supersymmetry could also mean that the universe should not be but would have self-annihilated the moment it was “born” with particle and sypersymmetrical anti-particle annhiliating each other. The LHC will be continuing to look for this, and an even larger collider may be built to test for it, but this solution isn’t looking promising.

2) Compositeness – the Higgs isn’t a fundamental particle, but a composite of still more fundamental particles that somehow self-adjust in their relationship to one another resulting in the appearance of unnatural fine tuning. Problem, nothing else and no other particles are coming out of the LHC and a larger collider might not produce them either.

3) Multi-Worlds, Multi-Verse Theory, with Strong Anthropic Principal. Problem – end of science, whereby all subjectivity and analysis is rendered moot as an unfathomable “coincidence” whereby we just so happen to be measuring in the one universe of an infinite possible array wherein the Higgs Boson only appears to have been unnaturally fine-tuned by quadrillions of reductions. In other words, it just is what it is mon (ire), and well, if it were any other way, then we would not be here to ask the question. Wut?! Huh?! Yea, the end of science, with no more particles forthcoming because there aren’t any more.

4) String Theory. Problem – same as multi-worlds/multiverse. String theory seems to describe every other universe but our own and does not appear to be subject to testing and verification by any empirical means so it will forever remain a theory. It also involves a direct appeal to the multiverse hypothesis with strong anthropic principal to try to explain the fine-tuning problem.

5) God did it, by super-intelligent design and with intent (by anticipation).

One way of looking at number five, if you’re uncomfortable with the idea of a creator God, would be to take on the idea of a field of infinite knowledge via accumulated information arising in eternity, like a Godhead of absolute formless potential (uncreated), whereby, beginning with the end in mind, having considered every possible outcome, and taking on the role of creator “you” measure twice and cut once since you could end up probing the impossible forever without arriving at what is now actualized. In other words you can’t get from there to here, except by anticipation. This mind-of-God explanation is in alignment with the work of physicists such as Bernard Haisch and Erwin Laszlo whereby Haisch employes the idea of the Godhead using the allegory of a filtered white light that, in order to differentiate itself and to make this life possible, including our own place in it, it must intelligently limit or reduce itself many many times, not unlike the fine-tuning of the Higgs, and limit or filter it’s infinite, absolute, formless potential. He then suggests that there’s no need to draw the distinction between God and Godhead of which we ourselves are not unlike a chip off the OLD block, by anticipation and with intent, presumably in order so that a shared and varied experience would be possible.

Problem. This would have to include not only the quantum realm, but also the precise organization of the material universe to bring about our present circumstance and thus the entire cosmic framework all the way to our own earth-moon-sun configuration (not as a mere chance or random occurrence).

The implications of unnatural fine-tuning, if Supersymmetry and Compositeness and the Multiverse (with Strong Anthropic Principal) must be discarded in favor of a new paradigm of some sort of intelligent creative X factor, cannot be underestimated, since they point to a whole new basis of our understanding of our place in the grand scheme of things, even as children of a loving and very generous God who it pleased to share his eternal kingdom of light, life and love.. “therefore fear not little ones nor let your hearts be troubled, for it pleased the father to share his kingdom”.

Can these ancient understandings and basis of reason and logic move from the realm of “religion” into the logical assertions of the empirical evidence of modern science at the very cutting edge, even to the very point of almost cutting off it’s own nose to spite it’s face amid the end of any reasonable inquiry into who and why the universe is the way it is?

Is this (Higg’s Boson unnatural fine-tuning) the end of scientific inquiry into the underlying nature of the material world, or will the new paradigm of an infinitely intelligent cosmological unity or self-aware universe that has included us on purpose, prevail, no matter what are it’s implications?

By avoiding the implication of a type of God Theory, would science be willing to shoot itself in the foot? I don’t think so. I have more faith in human curiosity and imagination than that. We go where the evidence leads us, no matter what are the implications..

Many of you will differ here of course, also to avoid the implication of the unnatural fine tuning of the Higgs Boson aka (ironically) “the God particle”, but it (a God Theory) is the most reasonable position to take in the face of the alternative multiverse, strong anthropic principal “hypothesis” which goes nowhere fast and leaves us in a state of perpetual uncertainty about the nature of reality.

“To be is to be perceived”
~ an adage of modern Quantum physics. (I just hope we get some privacy when we’re in the shower!).

Brilliant Disguise: Light, Matter and the Zero-Point Field, by Physicist Bernard Haisch

Bernard Haisch is an astrophysicist whose professional positions include Staff Scientist at the Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory, Deputy Director for the Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics at the University of California, Berkeley, and Visiting Fellow at the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany. His work has led to close involvement with NASA; he is the author of over 130 scientific papers; and was the Scientific Editor of the Astrophysical Journal for nine years, as well as the editor in chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.

The God Theory

Quoting Bernard Haisch from “The God Theory”

If you think of white light as a metaphor of infinite, formless potential, the colors on a slide or frame of film become a structured reality grounded in the polarity that comes about through intelligent subtraction from that absolute formless potential. It results from the limitation of the unlimited. I contend that this metaphor provides a comprehensible theory for the creation of a manifest reality (our universe) from the selective limitation of infinite potential (God)…

If there exists an absolute realm that consists of infinite potential out of which a created realm of polarity emerges, is there any sensible reason not to call this “God”? Or to put it frankly, if the absolute is not God, what is it? For our purposes here, I will indentify the Absolute with God. More precisely I will call the Absolute the Godhead. Applying this new terminology to the optics analogy, we can conclude that our physical universe comes about when the Godhead selectively limits itself, taking on the role of Creator and manifesting a realm of space and time and, within that realm, filtering out some of its own infinite potential…

Viewed this way, the process of creation is the exact opposite of making something out of nothing. It is, on the contrary, a filtering process that makes something out of everything. Creation is not capricious or random addition; it is intelligent and selective subtraction. The implications of this are profound.

If the Absolute is the Godhead, and if creation is the process by which the Godhead filters out parts of its own infinite potential to manifest a physical reality that supports experience, then the stuff that is left over, the residue of this process, is our physical universe, and ourselves included. We are nothing less than a part of that Godhead – quite literally.

Ervin Laszlo

Ervin Laszlo is considered one of the foremost thinkers and scientists of our age, perhaps the greatest mind since Einstein. His principal focus of research involves the Zero Point Field. He is the author of around seventy five books (his works having been translated into at least seventeen languages), and he has contributed to over 400 papers. Widely considered the father of systems philosophy and general evolution theory, he has worked as an advisor to the Director-General of the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in both 2004 and 2005. A multidisciplinarian, Laszlo has straddled numerous fields, having worked at universities as a professor of philosophy, music, futures studies, systems science, peace studies, and evolutitnary studies. He was a sucessful concert pianist until he was thirty eight.

In Laszlo’s view, the zero-point field (or the Akashic Field, as he calls it) is quite literally the “mind of God”.

Naming Hal Puthoff, Roger Penrose, Fritz-Albert Popp, and a handful of others as “front line investigators”, Laszlo quotes Puthoff who says of the new scientific paradigm:

[What] would emerge would be an increased understanding that all of us are immersed, both as living and physical beings, in an overall interpenetrating and interdependant field in ecological balance with the cosmos as a whole, and that even the boundary lines between the physical and “metaphysical” would dissolve into a unitary viewpoint of the universe as a fluid, changing, energetic/informational cosmological unity.”

An excert from Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything

Akasha (a . ka . sha) is a Sanskrit word meaning “ether”: all-pervasive space. Originally signifying “radiation” or “brilliance”, in Indian philosophy akasha was considered the first and most fundamental of the five elements – the others being vata (air), agni (fire), ap (water), and prithivi (earth). Akasha embraces the properties of all five elements: it is the womb from which everything we percieve with our senses has emerged and into which everything will ultimately re-descend. The Akashic Record (also called The Akashic Chronicle) is the enduring record of all that happens, and has ever happened, in space and time.”

Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything, 2004


Science and the Reenchantment of the Cosmos: The Rise of the Integral Vision of Reality


Maybe at the end of science there’s a joke at the expense of both science and religion that just keeps on getting better the more we come to grips with it and to better understand it’s implications.

Wouldn’t that be funny.. and interesting..?!

Corroborating evidence on the reality of Atlantis Source: atlan.org/articles/corroborating_evidence/ ©Arysio Santos

Posted in Ancient History, ATS Thread, Uncategorized on August 29, 2016 by betweentwopines

Many critics of Atlantis insist that, besides Plato’s dialogues, Timaeus and Critias, there is no other independent evidence provided by ancient authorities on the matter. Nothing could be farther away from the truth. Indeed, the ancient myths and traditions of most nations center on the legend of the Flood and on the destruction of Paradise, the original focus of Civilization that is no other than Atlantis.


Now, the Terrestrial Paradise – and not the Celestial one, by the way -is the Garden of Eden where Man originated and first rose above the beasts of the field. However, we agree that the Terrestrial Paradise, despite its unequivocal reality, has been spiritualized by many, and hence can hardly be invoked as “hard” proof of the former existence of Atlantis.


For that purpose, we gathered in the present chapter some passages of ancient historians who wrote on Atlantis and related matters, drawing from sources and traditions independent of the ones utilized by Plato. We do it in a schematic, listed way, in order to facilitate the comparison. Of course, the concise style adopted here renders any explanations impossible, and the themes touched are more study guides than anything else. The reader interested in further details is encouraged to quest the original sources or, if incapable of that, to read the more detailed accounts in other works of ours.



The Pillars of Atlantis


Proclus, a commentator of Plato’s works, affirms that Crantor too visited Sais, in Egypt, as Solon had done 300 years before. There, the Egyptian priests showed him a golden pillar inscribed with hieroglyphs that recorded in detail the history of Atlantis exactly as they had told it to his famous predecessor.


Manetho, the Egyptian chronicler, confirms the existence of such pillars and claims that, shortly before the Flood, Thoth-Hermes inscribed in stelae (pillars) the epitome of the ancient wisdom, so that the ancient knowledge should not be lost in the cataclysm.


Josephus, the Jewish historian contemporaneous with Christ, reports that Seth (Thoth?) “in order that wisdom and astronomical knowledge should not perish in the cataclysm.. made two pillars, one of stone the other of brick in which he inscribed this knowledge for posterity, said pillars existing in the land of Siriad to this day”.


Herodotus (Hist. II:58) personally saw, in Tyre (Phoenicia), in a temple of Hercules, “two pillars, one of pure gold, the other of emerald, which shone with great brilliancy at night.” Such Pillars of Hercules were erected by the Phoenicians just about everywhere they settled. But they did it particularly at crucial straits linking two seas, as was the case of Gibraltar, the Bosphorus, etc. The twin pillars commemorated, according to experts, the two founders of Atlantis, Hercules and Atlas.


Alexander, the Great, personally saw and inspected, according to his historians, many such giant pillars of gold bearing strange scripts in the extremities of India. He went beyond the pillars of Hercules and Dionysus as the limits of their exploits towards the Orient (the Indies), and even left his own pillars as a testimony of his feat. Now, Dionysus is the divine alias of Atlas, the elder twin of Hercules. So, just as we had the Pillars of Hercules and Atlas in Gibraltar, marking the western extreme of their ancient exploits, we also have their eastern counterparts in the extremities of the Indies, marking the true site of Atlantis.


Plato affirms, in his Critias, that the Atlantean kings inscribed in golden pillars their laws, edicts and judicial decisions, in a strange ritual involving the sacrifice of a bull dedicated to Poseidon. This type of ritual is characteristic of the Indies, where it is called Gomedha This sacrifice commemorates the death of Paradise (Gomeda-dvipa), which seems to be no other than Atlantis itself. A well-known instance of such inscribed pillars in India is the Pillar of Delhi, erected by King Ashoka, to commemorate his victory over his enemies. Though made of steel, the Pillar of Delhi is a peerless technological feat of antiquity, one that many experts associate with Atlantis. The pillar is forged from a single piece of steel, and is stainless, having defied the centuries without any oxidation at all. No one in antiquity could have matched this feat of the Hindus, which certainly obtained this sophisticated technology in Atlantis.


Another puzzling technology that proves the superior metallurgical skill of the Atlanteans is the “orichalch” that Plato mentions as covering the walls of Atlantis. Rather than the foolish idea of “mountain copper” – for copper ores, as indeed most metals, normally come from the mountains – the true etym of the name is as in the Latin spelling aurichalcum, that is, “golden copper”, or “golden bronze”. In reality the word pertains to brass, an alloy of copper and zinc that resembles gold, just as Plato states. Brass was only developed again in modern times, due to insuperable technological difficulties. And the secret of its technology was passed on by the Hindus, who got it directly from Atlantis, where else? The fact that Plato knew of it, and attributed its technology to Atlantis can, hence, hardly be doubted.


Plato tells how the walls of Atlantis were clad with gold, silver, bronze, tin and orichalch. This fact attests Atlantis’ enormous mineral wealth, at an epoch when no one else had yet developed these sophisticate technologies. Bronze, an alloy of copper and tin, was used in enormous quantities during the Bronze Age. The sources of these metals and, particularly, tin, have never been adequately identified. The Koltepe mines in Anatolia (Turkey) were a puny affair, those of Tartessos (Spain) were purely legendary, and those of Cornwall (England) were discovered only after the Bronze Age had declined. All that tin traditionally came from the legendary “Islands of Tin”, the Cassiterides. These mysterious islands were also called Tarshish, Tartessos, “Islands of Metals”, etc.. Their existence is stated in the Bible and other sources which are hard to doubt. As we detail elsewhere, Tarshish was in reality the same as Punt (Indonesia), even today the world’s greatest supplier of tin. So, if Plato is indeed right, we are led to conclude that Atlantis was in fact Indonesia.


The Date of 11,600 Before Present


Plato affirms that the demise of Atlantis took place “9,000 years before the times of Solon”. Now, Solon visited Egypt at about 600 BC, which adds to a total of about 11,600 BP (Before Present). Now, this is precisely the date of the cataclysmic ending of the Pleistocene Ice Age, as given by the geologic record. So, we are led to conclude that Plato’s date is correct, and that the Greek philosopher indeed knew what he was talking about.


Strabo, the Greek geographer and historian, tells us that 2,600 years before his time, certain navigants crossed beyond the Pillars of Hercules, and dealt with the Tartessians. Now, these Tartessians – who are often identified with the Atlanteans – had, he affirms, written records of their history that amounted to 7,000 years before their own time. Again, this adds to a date of about 11,600 BP, precisely as preconized by Plato for the Atlantean cataclysm, for Strabo flourished in the times of Christ.


Arnobius, a Christian bishop of the fourth century AD, told in one of his sermons concerning the catastrophes that have previously destroyed human civilization, that “ten thousand years ago, a vast number of men burst forth from the island which is called Atlantis of Neptune, as Plato tells us, and utterly ruined and blotted out countless nations.” Again, the date given by Arnobius turns out to be precisely the one of 11,600 BC. Though Arnobius’ relation seems to be based on that of Plato, he had access to sources now lost that apparently confirmed Plato’s disclosure in an independent way.


Manetho, the Egyptian historian, places the start of the dynasty of the “Spirits of the Dead” 5,813 years before Menes, the first king of unified Egypt. Now, Menes flourished between 3,100 and 3,800 BC or perhaps, even earlier, as some specialists claim. Again, this gives a date between 11,000 and 11,600 BC, in close agreement with the one given by Plato. It is quite probable that the “Spirits of the Dead” of Manetho were indeed the survivors of the Atlantean cataclysm, the same dead ancestors that the Romans called Lemures or Lares.


The Hindu traditions on the Yugas, as well as the similar ones of the Persians, hold that the eras of mankind last about 12,000 years each. On the other hand, these and other traditions maintain that we now enter, in the year 2,000, the final millennium of the present era, which started just after the demise of Atlantis. So, once again, we are led to the conclusion that the Atlantean cataclysm took place between 11,000 and 12,000 years ago.


The Codex Troano of the Mayas, translated by Augustus le Plongeon, the celebrated Mayanist, recounts the tragedy of Lemurian Atlantis, which sunk away in a terrible cataclysm. It tells that millions of people died in the cataclysm, and that the event took place “8,060 years before the writing of this book.” Supposing that the codex was written at about 1,500 BC, the start of the pre-classic Era, when the Mayan (Olmec) civilization sprung, we get a date for the cataclysm of about 11,600 BP. This is in perfect agreement with the date given by Plato. As is known, the Mayas originally came to America from an overseas paradise called Aztlan which sunk away underseas. Aztlan in visibly no other thing than Plato’s Atlantis. Except that Aztlan was located beyond the Pacific, rather than the Atlantic Ocean.


The Ramayana – the book that tells the destruction of Lanka by Rama and Hanumant – affirms that this war took place some 10,000 years before its own times. Now, the experts agree that the Ramayana was written at about 300 BC by Valmiki. Thus, the destruction of Lanka – which is no other thing than the one of Atlantis – took place at about 12,000 BP or so, in fair agreement with the date given by Plato.


Hindu traditions affirm that the first sangham (poetic academy) lasted for 4,400 years. The second one for 3,700 years. And the third and last one, which ended at about the start of the Christian era, lasted for 1,850 years. This yields at total of 11,900 BP for the start of the sanghams which, tradition holds, began shortly after the Flood. Considering that the Flood corresponds to the cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis, this Hindu tradition on the poetic academics confirms the date of Plato with excellent accuracy.


The end of the Pleistocene Ice Age – the date of whose closely coincides with the one of 11,600 BP given by Plato for Atlantis’ demise – also marks the rise of agriculture, of city-building and of the Neolithic both in the Old and the New Worlds. According to a universal tradition, civilization was brought just about everywhere by white, blond, blue-eyed, titanic giants. These giants are no other than the Atlanteans fleeing their destroyed Paradise and moving into their new homelands in order to make a fresh start. As if to confirm this worldwide tradition, it is at this date that we start to find fossil skeletons of Cro-Magnoid men, so often equated with the Atlanteans. And these are found precisely the sites connected with the rise of the Neolithic and of Civilization


Arthur Posnansky – the German-Bolivian archaeologist who long studied Tiahuanaco, the site of origin of the Incan civilization of Peru and Bolivia – concluded that this region of the Andes was formerly a seaport which suffered an uplift of about 3,000 meters. This cataclysm happened at about 11 or 12 thousand years ago, precisely the epoch of the Atlantean demise.


Bruce Heezen, the famous oceanographer of the Lamont Geological Observatory, showed that sea-level underwent a rise of about 100 to 150 meters worldwide at about 11,600 BP. This rise resulted from the meltwaters of the Ice Age glaciers that covered a substantial portion of the continents in the temperate regions of the world and which were up to a few kilometers in thickness. Heezen also pointed out that this rise of sea-level was sufficient to drown most low-lying coastal regions of the planet. In particular, the region that now forms the South China Sea averages under 60 meters or so in depth. Thus, this region – precisely the one which we preconize to have been the site of Atlantis – got submerged by the rising waters, just as affirmed by Plato.


Turning to Egyptian traditions, the source on which Plato bases his legend of Atlantis. The famous zodiac of Dendera – which was copied from far older versions whose origins are lost in the night of times – indicates that the constellation Leo lay at the vernal point in the epoch of its start. Now, the era of Leo centers at about 11,720 BC, in close agreement with the date given by Plato for the end of Atlantis and the start of the present era. What event but the cataclysmic end of the Pleistocene Ice Age and the consequent demise of Atlantis could better serve for the new start of times marked in that famous zodiac?


Makrisi, a famous Arab historian of Egypt, affirms that “fire issued from the sign of Leo to destroy the world.” This conflagration apparently confirms the above connection between the star of Dendera’s zodiac and the Atlantean cataclysm disclosed by Plato. The Arabs conquered Egypt, and inherited its magnificent culture and traditions, and it is quite likely that Makrisi was basing himself on them.



A Coptic papyrus indicates the same date for the Atlantean cataclysm. According to it: “the Flood will take place when the heart of the Lion (Aldebaran) enters the start of the head of Cancer”. In other words, the papyrus affirms that when the vernal point coincided with the center of Leo – an event that took place some 11,600 years ago – the Flood took place, destroying Atlantis and ending the Pleistocene Ice Age, which had lasted for some 2.5 millions of years. In the terrible event, a great many species of mammals and other creatures became extinct all over the world. This fact attests the universal character of the tragedy.

Full article : atlan.org/articles/corroborating_evidence/



Comments at   ATS:


by  AtlantisWasReal


Greek myths tell the legend of the Atlantides, the seven beautiful daughters of the Titan Atlas, the founding father of Atlantis. The Atlantides are also called Pleiades or Hesperides, and personify the seven Islands of the Blest, which the Greeks obscurely placed in the Outer Ocean (Atlantic). These Islands of the Blest became vaguely confused with the Canary Islands. But after these islands were discovered and proved rather barren, the Atlantic Islands receded to remoter regions, and figured just about everywhere in the ancient maps. But they kept the ancient tradition on the seven islands which were the remains of sunken Atlantis.

In Greek myths, the Seven Pleiades (or Atlantides) were turned into the famous constellations after they drowned in the Outer Ocean, preferring death to dishonor in the hands of their cruel persecutor, Orion, the Hunter. As the Hesperides, the seven sisters were the guardians of the Seven Islands of the Blest, where stood the Gardens of Atlas, their father. The Garden of the Hesperides was placed, according to Eustatius, in agro Atlantis “in the fields of Atlas” (or Atlantis?), in the neighborhood of Mt. Atlas. More exactly, this fabulous garden was the Garden of Eden of the Judeo-Christians. It was also the Garden of Avalon of the Celts, the Garden of Idun of the Germans, the Hades (or Islands of the Blest) of the ancient Greeks, etc. All these were indeed disguises of Plato’s Atlantis which, after its sinking, became the Realm of the Dead, the paradisial islands that we now equate with Hell.

I am sure I am not confusing it with something like this or the poster did confuse something like this.


a reply to: AtlantisWasReal

The native people of the Canary Island’s were related more closely to the north African berber tribe’s and were a light skinned fair or even red haired people though it is presumably possible that due to the isolation a later genetic heritage brought to the island’s by berber sailors could have become dominant over several generations and hidden an earlier genetic legacy, when the Spaniard’s invaded and colonized the island’s they more or less wiped the original inhabitant’s out but not completely and there are several account’s of them believing they had a lost land beneath the sea which a great number of Atlantis in the Atlantic adherent’s have claimed is atlantis, I do not know if the name of there sunken legend’s even survived the invasion as much of there culture was undoubtedly erased by the forced conversion and imported culture of the Spanish settler’s.

Very interesting group of people though.
Though linked to the Berbers it is also worth noting that the Irish also have shared genetic’s with the north african Berbers in a great part of Ireland’s native population so they may also have had celtic link’s.

Similar to the legend’s of the Canary’s are the legend’s of Ys and Lyoness in cornwall and the scily isles though they are geographically much further north.

The most similar name to Plato’s Atlantis is to be found in the Aztec legendary lost and sunken homeland which the believed had sunken beneath the eastern sea (Atlantic) and called Aztlan though in all likeliness the name similarity is nothing more than a coincidence.

I do believe there are many sunken ruin’s and that such a catastrophe however is more than possible but that there are many atlantis most from the end of the last ice age as well as likely other’s from even earlier since we have been in and out of several ice age’s over the past couple of hundred thousand years as well as other geological phenomena which may have come into play.


It is an interesting and engrossing subject as well as a hotly contested one.

Follow discussions at :  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1133931/pg1

Scientists Caught ‘Undead’ Genes Coming Alive After Death

Posted in Health, Medicine, Science, Uncategorized on August 28, 2016 by betweentwopines

What really happens to us after death? Once a person stops breathing, and their heart ceases to pump blood, they’re what doctors consider “clinically dead.” On a biological level, the eventual decomposition of cells, organs, and brain tissue signal its final and irreversible stages.

But what if that’s not actually the end? Two new studies claim that hundreds of genes actually kept expressing—and, in some cases, become more active—after death occurred. This came as a surprise to the researchers, because forensic pathologists have long suspected that gene activity degrades postmortem, which is why their rate of change is sometimes used to calculate time of death.

According to the lead author of both papers, microbiologist Peter Noble of the University of Washington, the discovery of “undead” genes could help to improve the preservation of organs destined for transplantation. The two studies are currently available on the pre-print server bioRxiv, and it’s important to note that neither have undergone peer review yet.

Read more at : http://motherboard.vice.com/read/scientists-caught-undead-genes-coming-alive-after-death?utm_source=mbfb

Related : http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/06/undead-genes-come-alive-days-after-life-ends

NASA scientist Dr. Norman Bergrun claims there are giant biological crafts in Saturn´s rings

Posted in Alien, ATS Thread, Conspiracy, Cosmos, Technology, Warnings on August 27, 2016 by betweentwopines

A post by Spacespider at ATS.
This just out.. one of NASA´s own guys is out and spreading the word there are giant living things in Saturn rings and they are “mating” and multiplying.
And the situation is critical. He also say they live in other ring planets like: Jupiter and Uranus.

This guy have said somehing like this before but the news should be that now he say they are “proliferating” at a critical rate.. or in other words multiplying.. are they mating ?


This isn’t the first time that the scientist has made such claims, but he warns that the situation is “critical” with living alien spaceships in our solar system “proliferating” faster than ever.

Dr. Norman have allready made himself known in 1986 by adressing the same topic in he´s book “Ring makers of Saturn.
But I guess now the situration is “critical” and he is taking up the subject again.

Here is a old presentation regarding the “ring makers of Saturn”

8/14/2016 – Remember The Cube That Was Placed On The Georgia Guidestones, Then Removed?

Posted in ATS Thread, Conspiracy, Prophesy, Warnings on August 7, 2016 by betweentwopines

A post by Signals at ATS.

Numerous threads have been written here about the Georgia Guidestones, their mysterious origin, and the “commandments” in different languages, so I will discuss none of the basics here.

Remember the cube that was placed in the empty notch in 2014?

When removed, it was revealed to have inscriptions on all sides –

20 14 8 16 MM JAM

Because the cube was somehow placed in this notch in 2014, and the visible inscriptions were 20 & 14, it was assumed something relating to the inscriptions, of great catastrophic nature (in order to get the world population down to that magic number 500,000,000) would happen in 2014. Obviously, nothing happened…

If those inscriptions are arranged a different way, you can end up with

8 14 20 16

Or, 8/14/2016

As for the other inscriptions, many have come up with

MM = Master Mason

And, why not, considering the type of monument constructed.

JAM = Judgement Against Mankind

This is a video from 2014, where a city worker, in charge of keeping the monument clean, arrives at the sight, removes the cube, and destroys it-

Notice what he says towards the end, before he starts smashing it – “We have the original”, interesting…..

Now, what else significant is happening around this date, this date which is only 8 days away from us right now?

August 14 2016 is a very important date in the Jewish Calendar, “Tisha B’av”.

. On this day both Jewish temples were destroyed, the first in 423 BC and the second in 70 AD. On the 9th of Av in 135 AD 500,000 Jewish people were slaughtered by Roman soldiers in the city of Betar.


Where could such a huge event affecting all of the world happen on this date? The Summer Olympics in Rio, of course. On Sunday, a day of worship, in a 74 % Christian city, with all of the eyes of the world upon it.

Something else to take note, an Israeli Security team is handling security at the Olympics, ISDS-



Guess how many days in between the official declaration of an Islamic Caliphate from ISIS, 6/29/14, and 8/14/16?


Oh well, could just be another date too, just like all others that have come and gone.

Something else to ponder, a rare opportunity to see 5 planets in the night sky, happening on 8/14/2016-

When will we see all five planets together again? We’ve had a number of people ask us when the next presentation of the five visible planets in the same sky will take place. It will be possible to view all five in the evening sky – very briefly – from about August 13 to 19, 2016.


Also, from Nostradamus-

“The year of the great seventh number accomplished,
It will appear at the time of the games of slaughter,
not far from the age of the great millennium
when the dead will come out from their graves.”

The games of slaughter???


I’m sure there is more to look at, but it seems to all fit together.


Follow discussion at :  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1131371/pg1

Paul Hellyer drops bomb @ hearing on UFO/Aliens in Canada – Deathbed Testimonial

Posted in Alien, ATS Thread, Conspiracy, Cosmos on July 13, 2016 by betweentwopines


A post by boncho at ATS
The deathbed testimonial is not Hellyer’s, it was someone who spoke to him

This is a truly astounding link that will not be realized immediately. Though i’d caution people to relax a bit, before immediately trying to debunk or dismiss this info, and the related article by Grant Cameron (of Presidential UFOs) please consider this is not just Hellyer’s statements, this is linked to mountains of information. More importantly this is linked to mountains of information that is currently being held back by government, and will not be released under any circumstance. And this can be proven, because files & data have been catalogued and reported, but then went missing.

New Death Bed Testimonial: UFOs

I have personally been working on an overarching story, or analysis of all information that’s come out in the last 60+ years on the topic. And the framework laid out in this article, is very similar.

There may have been a lot that the reporters had not heard but there was nothing new being presented that I had not heard before. That was until the former Canadian Minister of National Defense and former Deputy Prime Minister Paul Hellyer started to take questions related to his testimony.

The more important and dramatic piece of evidence presented by Hellyer was a story he told about the day he was called to listen to some death bed confession.

Paul did not provide dates for the events but he received a call from a man who said that the former head of emergency measures in Canada (let’s call him official X) was dying of ALS (Lou Gehrig’s disease) and that he has a story he wanted to get off his chest. He had decided that Paul Hellyer was the man he wanted to tell the story to. This is the story recounted by Hellyer

One addition[al] person in Ottawa who would know is the Chief of Emergency Measures. The reason I know is that I interviewed the previous one that the previous one who is now deceased. He went to Langley and the CIA asked him if he wanted to see one of these craft.

They flew him to Area 51 and let him go inside one. He was allowed no make notes and all these sort of things, I guess so he could be in a better position if one of these things crashed here and he was involved in trying to do something positive about it. Before he was allowed to go he had to sign an oath of secrecy and not tell anyone, and he didn’t in his life tell anyone including his wife. An Air Force buddy phoned me and told me he was dying of Lou Gehrig’s disease, and at that point he thought he should tell someone. I made an appointment with him and my buddy phoned me up and told me “You better get in touch with him right away because he is right on the edge.”

I phoned him and he gave me a full report of what he saw and the whole idea of the inside of the craft, and this sort of thing, along with the fact that he had been briefed. He felt that he could now tell, and I would be a good one to tell.[1]

People might say, “yeah yeah, crazy former Canadian Defense Minister, blah blah, he keeps talking about UFOs, but he didn’t even see one, who cares?” -or something to the equivalent. We get a lot of negativity like that injected into this debate. (I myself am guilty)

Remember before Area 51 was made public. Remember how many whistleblowers or random stories and accounts we had to suggest it was a reality and even when it was publicly referred to and known about no one would admit it. It wasn’t until years after it being ‘public knowledge’ was it even finally addressed officially or by someone official.

Back to the article:

Cameron cites the Wilbert Smith case, which is eerily similar to the deathbed confessional Hellyer gave. It’s not the same case. Wilbert Smith headed up the Canadian UFO investigation, and the Hellyer deathbed confessional comes from a former head of emergency preparedness.

Wilbert Smith, who headed the official Canadian government program into flying saucers also made death bed confession to his son James related to what he was shown. According to what James told me, just before he died, Smith confirmed that American officials had shown him the bodies and a flying saucer at a base outside of Washington, D.C.

Why is this important?

Cameron cites the fact that his investigations have discovered that the President and others are not fully briefed, and instead it’s kept on a need-to-know basis. This deathbed confession supports that, and other conclusions:

The revelation by Hellyer that the top emergency management officer in Canada was read-in to the reality of ETs and the fact the United States government has knowledge, would clearly indicate that the US president is fully aware and in control of the UFO mystery. It would be completely nonsensical to propose that foreign officials have knowledge but that US officials don’t.

The Hellyer story indicates that emergency management officials are in the need-to-know of the UFO subject, and this makes total sens

To me, it supports much more though. It’s very similar to the very account Wilbert Smith gave: Here is an overview of Wilbert Smith’s story and all of this comes from classified documents, and other deathbed confessionals mind you:

The saucers existed

The substance of Scully’s book was correct

The matter was the most highly classified subject in the U.S. government, ranking even higher than the H-bomb

It was considered of tremendous significance by the government

A small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush was looking into the “modus operandi” of the saucers

Other aspects of the saucers were being investigated, including possible “mental phenomena” [3]

To me, the most important part about Wilbert Smith’s revelations comes from the fact that he corroborated in part, the Majestic 12 documents. Not only that, but Wilbert’s account plus this new deathbed testimonial somewhat confirm the way the US operated when they brought someone into the fold, no matter how deep or superficial. They bring them down, open the subject to them, hoping to get new insights into the materials or technology on hand.

Keep in mind, this is also corroborated in an account which has nothing to do with Aliens & UFOs, Mike Frost, a whistleblower who documented the very small CSE Canadian spy apparatus, and the formation of CSIS, gives a startlingly similar account in his tell-all book called SPYWORLD which documents the US’s need, back in 1960s, for the Canadian’s to spy for them on Russia, and later the UK.

At the time, the CSE was a tiny, few-man operation. They flew him down to spy headquarters in the US, into a bunker, with biometrics and other technologies that wouldn’t be invented for 20 years.

This is where Grant Cameron and I diverge however. He goes on to form links between Canadian Emergency Management and the parallels to the US equivalent, FEMA. He’s got some major points here as well, and Ill continue a short summary.

If anyone is not familiar with Grant Cameron, he’s the one behind Presidential UFO and he’s been tracking all information related to UFOs/Aliens & the Whitehouse.

If anyone isn’t familiar, Carter involvement in UFOs and also the Clinton involvement in UFOs are must reads.

If you haven’t read the Rockefeller briefing document, you also need to read this.

I bring this up because Cameron continues on with the Kecksberg incident and the disappearance of files which was very similar to:

This was very similar to Clinton Library archivists telling me that they cannot find the 991 pages of Rockefeller Initiative documents that I received in 2001 direct from the office of the Science Adviser to the President’s office inside the White House during the administration.

Consider it was the Rockefeller Initiative that was trying to unmask the UFO/Alien underbelly during Clinton’s reign as POTUS. Makes you question just why so many attacks and former investigations were made into Clinton, and if they were possibly related.

But I digress. Cameron links the similarities between Canada’s emergency management head, and FEMA. And points out a strong argument that they would be in the ‘need to know.’

John Podesta (you know, Hillary’s right hand man, the former Chief of Staff, UFO/Alien disclosure enthusiast tried to help get Kecksberg disclosed:

In 2003, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairperson, John Podesta, helped reporter Leslie Kean to file a

John Podesta
Freedom of Information Act Request for documents related to the December 9, 1965 crash of a UFO at Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. In 2005, a lawsuit was filed to force NASA to produce all the documents from the crash which they were reported to have been a key player in the recovery and investigation.

But by the time anyone got there, the documents were gone. Cameron points out they were likely barking up the wrong tree. Pushing on the wrong agency. It’s obvious UFO/Alien files go somewhere else. And he makes an argument for where that might be….

The lawsuit led to the same circular game that every UFO research has experienced related to trying to recover government UFO documents. Steve McConnell, NASA’s public liaison officer, admitted two boxes of documents from the time of the Kecksburg incident were missing.

In 2007, the judge summed up the three-year court battle to get a proper reply by NASA to the FOIA. He stated that the previous NASA searches had been, “ball of yarn” that never evaded a proper response to the request. He added, “I can sense the plaintiff’s frustration because I’m frustrated.”

The death bed confession by the head of emergency management in Canada hints at a series of important possibilities.

The first is that the Podesta FOIA may have failed because the request was targeted at the wrong agency. The key documents related to NASA’s involvement in the Kecksburg crash may have been removed from NASA’s control as far back as days after the crash. It would be a similar situation to when the Government Accounting Office investigated the 1947 Roswell UFO crash only to find that all the records from the Roswell Army Air Base from the time period in question were missing.

Eventually this ends up back to the Aviary. And I think once anyone from them is involved, you have to question whether or not the information is real or calculated disinfo. It really says nothing about each member, it says more likely on the fact that the Aviary, Bill Moore, and others were too close to the truth, they were likely targeted, just like how Friedman was likely targeted back during the initial MJ12 document exposure. In fact, with the corroborating evidence with Wilbert Smith, and this new deathbed confessional, and the supporting information by an entirely unrelated Mike Frost, I’d say it’s a very likely scenario.

The old lies do not stand up anymore and it seems a very clear picture is painted if one goes back over the evidence. If it’s merely all just Cold War lies, why on god’s earth is it not declassified? Ask yourselves this. The claim that all of this is just some cover for something else, is impossible.

The information is out there, the only thing that needs to be done now, disclosure needs to be demanded.